How do BBP mods and animations work?

[bjornk]

I haven't much clue about the way animations or physics work in Skyrim and need a little bit of insight on how BBP mods work. I'd appreciate if someone could answer these a few questions:

• I understand that a custom *physics enabled* skeleton is the first requirement for BBP mods, is that correct?
  
• Is a custom skeleton and perhaps a body mesh made for it enough to get any visual effects of the physics engine, on let's say, breasts, without the requiring anything else?
  
• Do we also need a special animation made for the physics enabled custom skeleton to see any visual difference?
  
• How does the skeleton interact with an armor/cloth mesh that covers the body either fully or partially? Or in simpler terms, why do we need BBP armor/clothes?
  

Thanks in advance.

[hma77]

You've thought your way through most of it. In a nutshell the skeleton has extra bones (points) on it. Those bones (points) are then matched up to the model (body, or armor) which has been weighted to those bones. The replacement animations use those new bones.

So you can't have one or two with out the other for it to render how it does.

[gti443]

If you're familiar enough with NifSkope try copying a normal armor mesh onto a xBBP enabled body with xBBP animations. Body mesh moves, armor mesh doesn't. Hello clipping.

So you can't have one or two with out the other for it to render how it does.

This, pretty much. Simply put - the animation basically tells the skeleton bones how to move, the weight on the mesh tells the skin how (or how much) to react to the movement. If you have a breakdown somewhere it just won't move.

[bjornk]

If you're familiar enough with NifSkope try copying a normal armor mesh onto a xBBP enabled body with xBBP animations. Body mesh moves' date=' armor mesh doesn't. Hello clipping.

So you can't have one or two with out the other for it to render how it does.

This, pretty much. Simply put - the animation basically tells the skeleton bones how to move, the weight on the mesh tells the skin how (or how much) to react to the movement. If you have a breakdown somewhere it just won't move.

So you can't use a BBP skeleton/body with a non-BBP/vanilla armor/cloth without clipping, and if you want visible BBP effects you have to have custom/non-vanilla animations created for a specific BBP enabled skeleton.

Thank you guys for answering. I think I can live without BBP for the time being.

[GrimReaper]

So you can't use a BBP skeleton/body with a non-BBP/vanilla armor/cloth without clipping

You can because the armor or clothing always replaces the actual body mesh. If you have a BBP body, skeleton and animations and you equip a non-BBP armor you just don't have any bounce.

[bjornk]

So you can't use a BBP skeleton/body with a non-BBP/vanilla armor/cloth without clipping

You can because the armor or clothing always replaces the actual body mesh. If you have a BBP body' date=' skeleton and animations and you equip a non-BBP armor you just don't have any bounce.

[/quote']

Wouldn't the body clip through the armor/cloth if the body isn't fully covered? I mean, what if it's a skimpy sort of armor that exposes most of the body? Wouldn't it clip then? Does the game completely disregard the information on the actual body mesh when an armor is worn? I'm asking as I can see for example, the UNP body texture beneath a vanilla armor. Does that mean the game is showing me the texture on the vanilla body mesh?

[Shinobi556]

So you can't use a BBP skeleton/body with a non-BBP/vanilla armor/cloth without clipping

You can because the armor or clothing always replaces the actual body mesh. If you have a BBP body' date=' skeleton and animations and you equip a non-BBP armor you just don't have any bounce.

[/quote']

Wouldn't the body clip through the armor/cloth if the body isn't fully covered? I mean, what if it's a skimpy sort of armor that exposes most of the body? Wouldn't it clip then? Does the game completely disregard the information on the actual body mesh when an armor is worn? I'm asking as I can see for example, the UNP body texture beneath a vanilla armor. Does that mean the game is showing me the texture on the vanilla body mesh?

When you equip an armor, it replaces your "naked skin" body entirely. The armor's shape is then your new body - there is no "underneath body".

I'm no modder, so I don't really know how you can see your custom skin texture with skimpy armors, but I assume that when there's an empty space (such as at the shoulder area here) the creator of the armor has to indicate (or else it's automatically detected) his mod that it's a blank and needs to use the skin texture directory to cover it up (otherwise it will be a transparent area ingame). However that texture doesn't govern the shape of the body - the armor will.

You could, if you wanted to, use the wrong texture (say for body A with body but the nipples or nails etc could be out of place and seem all distorted.

For the skeleton itself, it is invisible ingame. It's just there to tell the game how the characters walk, move and animate. BBP requires a custom skeleton as it has blobs in the breast area (unlike the vanila skeleton) which move around the texture of whatever mesh (naked body or armor etc) to create a "bounce" effect when walking...

[robinhood11]

So basically a BBP ready mesh should be able to utilize TBBP animations, because all the stuff is weighted, right?

[GrimReaper]

Wouldn't the body clip through the armor/cloth if the body isn't fully covered? I mean' date=' what if it's a skimpy sort of armor that exposes most of the body? Wouldn't it clip then? Does the game completely disregard the information on the actual body mesh when an armor is worn? I'm asking as I can see for example, the UNP body texture beneath a vanilla armor. Does that mean the game is showing me the texture on the vanilla body mesh?

[/quote']

The armor replaces the whole body mesh. If you run around naked, the game uses whatever mesh is designated as the body. If you haven't tinkered with that, it's the femalebody.nif for the upper- and lowerbody. If you have BBP installed, this mesh will have bouncy breasts and stuff. Now if you equip an armor this armor will replace the body mesh entirely. The game doesn't put the armor mesh over the body mesh. If you have skimpy armor that shows the character's skin then the parts of the body that you can see a part of the armor mesh and NOT of the femalebody.nif. The base body has nothing to do with how the armor looks like, that's why you can have a CBBE body with big breasts for example but when you equip an armor that uses the CBBE-slim base your character will appear with small breasts.

That means if you equip stuff that's not BBP-enabled you just don't see any bouncing.

So basically a BBP ready mesh should be able to utilize TBBP animations' date=' because all the stuff is weighted, right?

[/quote']

Afaik TBBP added some new bones to the skeleton. Which means that TBBP uses more bones than BBP. So no, you won't get the full TBBP effect with a mesh that was weighted for BBP. I think it will still bounce, but only BBP and not TBBP bounce. Even if you have a TBBP skeleton and animations installed.

[jonusl2d]

Wouldn't the body clip through the armor/cloth if the body isn't fully covered? I mean' date=' what if it's a skimpy sort of armor that exposes most of the body? Wouldn't it clip then? Does the game completely disregard the information on the actual body mesh when an armor is worn? I'm asking as I can see for example, the UNP body texture beneath a vanilla armor. Does that mean the game is showing me the texture on the vanilla body mesh?

[/quote']

The armor replaces the whole body mesh. If you run around naked, the game uses whatever mesh is designated as the body. If you haven't tinkered with that, it's the femalebody.nif for the upper- and lowerbody. If you have BBP installed, this mesh will have bouncy breasts and stuff. Now if you equip an armor this armor will replace the body mesh entirely. The game doesn't put the armor mesh over the body mesh. If you have skimpy armor that shows the character's skin then the parts of the body that you can see a part of the armor mesh and NOT of the femalebody.nif. The base body has nothing to do with how the armor looks like, that's why you can have a CBBE body with big breasts for example but when you equip an armor that uses the CBBE-slim base your character will appear with small breasts.

That means if you equip stuff that's not BBP-enabled you just don't see any bouncing.

So basically a BBP ready mesh should be able to utilize TBBP animations' date=' because all the stuff is weighted, right?

[/quote']

Afaik TBBP added some new bones to the skeleton. Which means that TBBP uses more bones than BBP. So no, you won't get the full TBBP effect with a mesh that was weighted for BBP. I think it will still bounce, but only BBP and not TBBP bounce. Even if you have a TBBP skeleton and animations installed.

The only exception to what grim posted is if the armor mod in question is done in a fashion that basically places it over a naked body (happened with a few armors in oblivion but haven't seen any in skyrim) This style is pretty rare and you wont see it often.

And regarding the tbbp/bbp related stuff grim is correct on that as well, unless a mesh is specifically weighted for tbbp you wont get anything more than a basic bbp bounce even with tbbp skeletons and animations. The inverse is a little different though you can use tbbp weight meshes with bbp animations and it will function fine ONLY if you have a TBBP compatible skeleton, such as XPMS (game will crash otherwise)

Note: TBBP meshes/skeleton using BBP animations will be only be BBP motions, Only when you have all three parts as TBBP will it function as TBBP Skeleton/Mesh/Animation.

TBBP scale of Importance and sake of Compatibility without crashing in Descending order:

Skeleton>Mesh>Animation.

[GrimReaper]

The only exception to what grim posted is if the armor mod in question is done in a fashion that basically places it over a naked body (happened with a few armors in oblivion but haven't seen any in skyrim) This style is pretty rare and you wont see it often.

You can do that if you tell the game to use a different equipment slot. You can for example attach an armor to the ring or tail slot (normally it would occupy the body slot). At least that's what you did in Oblivion, I think Skyrim has much more equipment slots that aren't even used by any items in the vanilla game. That's why you can have cloaks and stuff in Skyrim. In Oblivion you had to assign the cloak to the ring or tail slot to make it work because otherwise it would have replaced a part of the body. That meant of course that as soon as you equipped a ring the cloak would disappear or if you played with a race with a tail that tail would disappear depending on which slot the cloak actually used.

/stuff that nobody cares about