Tsaesci

[elalquimista]

Just wanted to put some thought onto this because I found out about this race in TES universe and it seemed most curious to me.

 

Just if you don't know what they are, look here: http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Tsaesci

They were supposed to be a serpent race from Akavir, the other large continent besides Tamriel in TES world

 

If you dig up a bit in history and mythology you'll find that most games, movies and books are based on previously existing lore

And these ones seem to be based on a particularly hidden or ignored side of history

 

Most people think the theory that says aliens came to earth on ancient times is crazy, mostly because evidence is logical but inconclusive. Some people seem inclined to think it's rubbish and nonsense, but in my humble opinion that's just prejudice.

I still haven seen a person that in open mind accepts to review all the facts and explanations this theory offers and still think it's just rubbish. Reviewing the stories and analyzing the main points of it, it makes perfect sense with almost every single unsolved mystery of human civilization.

 

The point of this, is that this theory refers a lot to the old mythology, and most cultures have a mythological past that speaks of serpent gods. Serpents are present in every culture as figures of wisdom, sometimes as gods, tyrants or representations of evil.

Quetzalcoatl (Mayan), Chinese dragons, Apophis in Egypt, Lucifer in paradise and the "tempting" of Eve, Jormungandr in Norse mythology, Kundalini as the serpent of wisdom in Hindi philosophy, In Greek mythology, the staff of wisdom and symbol of medicine is Aesculapius's Staff consisting of two serpents, and on and on and on...

 

There are also stories of gods who claimed blood as sacrifice all over the world, and this is the second myth: Vampires. At some point, everything got screwed up, mixed with superstition, the plague, zombies and other lore. So the undead vampire came to exist.

But the original ones were not undead, but very much alive, and part of this race of serpent so called gods in all appearances.

As common as the serpent references, there are blood references in everything.

From Aztec stories of how the gods bled and mutilated their own bodies to give birth to mankind, to Jesus Christ who ascended to heaven after a ritual where he shared his blood with his closest ones and then spilled it all for humanity.

 

Now back to the Elder Scrolls it's curious to note the existence of Tscaesci, this vampiric serpent-like race that ate all the humans of Akavir. I thought vampires in TES were simple undead infected people, but turns out there's more of the other side too

 

I always hated the idea of the undead, zombies are undead, not vampires

 

There's much debate on the real intentions of the serpent people, but it appears their intentions were divided between good and evil.

 

Apparently there's also important not to confuse "serpents" with "reptilians" those would be the argonians...

 

Does anybody else think this is curious?

Just wandering...

All this lore for nothing?

I started to doubt the writers in Bethesda didn't do their homework on researching lore for creating TES

Sorry but coincidences... I just don't buy it

 

Anybody?....

 

Anyway sorry for this crazy talk... Just needed to share it with someone else who actually played these games...

 

Also... so sad I couldn't find a good mod with this race...

[Emily]

Emily works on lizards.

 

They spit acids.

Turn people to stone.

Some even learn to fly like thrushes.

 

V Ugly bunch of prototype. V

[elalquimista]

I take it Emily add them to her Monstergirl stuff?

Emily so twisted in her mind... 

 

And how'd you like it if you could get better models for those things?

 

I wanted to have a Gorgon from ages now... still a little indecisive if I want a Medusa character or just an enemy...

I think I'm starting to incline for the character option, and I'll say she's Tsaesci...

 

Mi fingers are itching for creating those models...

This is what I'm talking about int terms of design:

 

It'd take me some time though... other stuff to do first

But I'm pretty sure something would be left to make creatures from the pieces...

The one thing I can't do here is make skeletons... But for any existing model and skeleton If it exists and behaves like a snake, I could make a better one based on its behavior....

 

[Emily]

Snake wearing kimono is not a bad idea either. Unless you have a skeleton that support long necks, long arms, long tails and hind legs.

 

Seeing the D&d version of ...uh.. what do they called them?

 

Yuan Qi?

 

 

[fejeena]

ElsweyrAnequina has a Tsaesci race (does not look good.) The male tail works  with Rober's Body v4 but the female tail is not HGEC compatible.

In Edhildil "The Temple of Medusa" Mod is a snake tail for female DM Body. Emily used the Gorgon in her MG Mod.

[Emily]

The seams.

Can improve with proper texturing.

 

or Argonia headed tsaechi with snake lower body and nexus argonian realistic earth scale coloration.

[dboura]

Now that would be an interesting race to play or even see cross into Skyrim's borders.

[elalquimista]

Proper texturing AND proper modeling

With enough dedication, models could be linked by vertices and have real continuity between tissues, then only the texture remains... I have a frozen project to make some improvements to a siren race with this method.

 

Once meshes are continuous, texture gets much more effective

One of my first released projects, an improvement on spider daedras (especially for their faces... they were ugly as fuck) ...Yes I made a nude version too, and for that one I had to put continuous tissue

Notice the waist line, separating humanoid torso from spider body, I focused on making the line as some kind of suit, but the only division is texture, not clipping meshes

 

And BTW, I also wanted to show something simple I made:

This is what argonians used to look like:

And this is what they should look like according to me:

Sorry the lack of clothing and production... I was in a hurry

Now I think darker is much more reptilian and realistic than cartoon green. Also all those weird colors of aging went away too... these are lizards not poisonous swamp frogs

 

So I think there is still hope for seeing decent Tsaesci...

Dunno about Skyrim yet, but Oblivion could be possible

[Jexsam]

The whole first post just seems to meander from point to point without ever really posing a question or thought to consider, so I'm really not sure what exactly to say in reply. However, since the oddball races of TES are one of my favorite subjects and I love a good chance to spout about lore, I'll give you the basic course on Tsaesci.

Let's start with what they are. Books in the game suggest the Tsaesci are serpent-like beastfolk from the continent of Akavir. They're thought to be powerful mages, responsible for the suspected weather-altering magic that caused the Imperial invasion of Akavir to fail as it did at Ionith.

They are thought to be vampiric and that they literally ate the native men of Akavir. But this is debatable. For starters, there's a lot of propaganda and pro-Imperial sentiment that has found its way, intentionally or not, into our main sources on the Akaviri peoples - Disaster at Ionith and Mysterious Akavir. The Empire was under Tsaesci rule for four centuries under the Potentates Versidue-Shaie and his son Savirien-Chorak, but there's no record of them ever eating people or drinking blood. There were other Tsaesci in the Empire at the time, too. It's possible all records of anything like that were destroyed or lost in the intervening years seeing as back then it was relatively easy to wipe information from the face of the earth, but it's still rather unlikely to have gone unnoticed or totally wiped out. Popular theory is that "eaten" is just a colorful way of saying "assimilated" or "enslaved". They might not have been vampires at all, either.

Curiously, there's even some debate over whether they were serpent-like at all. The Tsaesci soldier in Pale Pass in that one quest in Oblivion was clearly human. Now, logically, that was simply dev laziness - no point making a whole new model and skeleton and animations for a one-off ghost in one mission. But there are other possible in-universe explanations; the solider was a human slave, a man of Akavir; or Tsaesci really aren't beast-men. I think the former is more likely, personally. Then again, the Akaviri dragonslayers depicted in reliefs in Sky Haven Temple are also human in appearance. Then again, we're never told they're Tsaesci, and they're ancient enough that they could predate the Tsaesci "eating" their kind. But we can't say anything for sure.

Beyond that, there's little else to tell.

[Emily]

are they Akatosh's kids?

 

Like the dovah?

[Jexsam]

I can't say I've ever read or heard of any creation myth held by the Tsaesci, but I sincerely doubt they're related to dragons at all. But it's not impossible. Argonians are supposedly related to the Hist trees, so there's a lot of wiggle room for some bizarre lineages.

[Emily]

If only we ask bethesda about them.

Fat chances they appear on TES.Online.

[Poontank]

One of my first released projects.

I focused on making the line as some kind of suit.

 

Are you familiar with this (probably not)?

 

 

Some prominent features there. Like... Err...Sleeves! And an Oblivion gate! Or two.

[elalquimista]

The whole first post just seems to meander from point to point without ever really posing a question or thought to consider, so I'm really not sure what exactly to say in reply. However, since the oddball races of TES are one of my favorite subjects and I love a good chance to spout about lore, I'll give you the basic course on Tsaesci.

When writing and talking so many things past in my head that it's difficult to concentrate and put only a few, so yes... a lot of points. When examining the theory there are thousands of points to give, and arguments for everything, but always there will be people who say "no, that is impossible because..." and again there's an argument for that. Putting all the points is impossible, so a lot of things get mixed up.

The post is not a question, it's a topic, something to consider, I give a few of my opinions, a few people give some of theirs.

That's what I think about the Tsaesci, Dboura thinks they would be interesting to play in Skyrim, Emily thinks of Gorgons and modding possibilities when their name appears, you seem to think the fictional TES lore stories about them are "imperial lies and propaganda" if i got the point, and so on...

 

 

Are you familiar with this (probably not)?

 

 

Is that something related to lovers mods?

Back when doing this I looked all Nexus and found nothing but the same ugly faces, with better defined nude bodies and humongous boobs with different texture.

 

But it's a matter of taste, you may say all you like that my spider sucks and doesn't have those boobs and sleeves etc etc etc...

My intention was making an improvement on what already existed, to create the illusion that the spiders were not modded at all and combine with the rest of the world. If that's the model I think it is, the waist line is not my favorite outcome, those are two meshes, an HGEC body (god knows what variation...) and the existing spider. When two different meshes are joined and either mesh connection or texture connection fails, work is incomplete.

The model is good, and in many things, a lot better than mine, but I prefer mine, it mimics more with what there was in Oblivion, it has only one different texture, and the rest is improvement from vanilla, the one you post must have at least 3 different extra textures

The nude body is not even the main point of the mod:

This one is.

It's the same vanilla design, but instead, the spider shell is separate from the body, giving the impression there is really a real body under the shell and not glued to the clothing and bad meshes as originally

A reminder of vanilla spiders: 

 

 

And I actually did make a sleeved version... unfortunately I decided to delete it... dunno why... It's easy to make some for it...

 

I like my spider, and I especially like the way I could combine "human" skin with spider shell and still look lore-friendly

 

So don't you go around undermining my work!... my spider has feelings, you know? 

[Poontank]

But it's a matter of taste, you may say all you like that my spider sucks and doesn't have those boobs and sleeves etc etc etc...

The model is good, and in many things, a lot better than mine, but I prefer mine.

The one you post must have at least 3 different extra textures.

I like my spider, and I especially like the way I could combine "human" skin with spider shell and still look lore-friendly

 

So don't you go around undermining my work!... my spider has feelings, you know? 

 

 

I like your spider, too. That's why I made this texture for her. Because this is your mesh after all!

 

The sleeves and vagina are part of that texture. Main thinking behind the skin was to make Spider Daedra more similar in appearance to Xivilai with the same colour scheme. The shiny dark skin is delicious. Diablo Spider Daedra!

 

Same goes for your Spriggan remodel. Some UV map tweaks and a better texture make for a much nicer creature.

I've used that mesh for all Spriggan-based enemies (Shroom Spriggans, Dwemer Spriggan, Seducer...).

[elalquimista]

LOL

XD

Epic fail!, I didn't recognize my own work

So that's why it didn't seem like any other previous...

I though it was one I saw long ago when I was investigating lovers creature... I saw another model built with that set up I mentioned, a mashup of spider parts and DMRA body...

Very nice work on the retexture to Xivilai!

The fact I didn't recognize it speaks even better of this addittion

And anyway I was reconsidering putting a version with the sleeves back as separate...

[Jexsam]

you seem to think the fictional TES lore stories about them are "imperial lies and propaganda" if i got the point, and so on...

That's a very blunt way of putting it, but... yeah, sort of. Mostly I'm just trying to remain aware of the fact that it's entirely possible the Empire has demonized the Tsaesci to at least some extent. Considering Tamriel's history and brief interactions with Akavir are almost exclusively ones of conflict, barring only the 400-year reign of the Potentates that was not terribly well liked and ended with the Morag Tong doing what they do best, it's hardly an unreasonable thing to think.

Personally, though, I think they are in fact serpentine (their physical appearance is one of the few things about them that is well-documented, what with some ruling the Empire and all). I don't think they're vampires, nor do I think they ate men. Rather, I think they either killed them all or enslaved them.

I'm actually very interested to know what's happened to them in the 200 years between Oblivion and Skyrim. Last anyone knew of them, they were at war with the Ka Po' Tun and Tang Mo, and their empire was in decline. More interesting still, the Ka Po' Tun leader, the Tiger-Dragon Tosh Raka, had plans to invade Tamriel once the Tsaesci were defeated. And gods only know when the Kamal will thaw out again and do their thing...

[Poontank]

Your mesh is more sophisticated than for example Rebel O'Conner's version, EA. It's all in the face and the breast shape.

Both are making the creature a beautiful temptress in the vein of what the developers probably were aiming for. I mean, just look at the 'Spider Daedra healing herself' animation! Stripperiffic. In Rebel's 'Oblivion Sexualized Monsters' mod I saw a Xivilai-coloured Spider Daedra skin for the first time.

 

After implementing Oldwolf's female Xivilai into the game I wanted the Spider Daedra look just like that. Though in the meantime I've started using the same scarred grayish skin like my female Dremora for the Xiviladies.

 

Just one more tribute to your remodels for the road before I shut up and get back on topic - I made two shots of your Spriggan:

 

 

"Excuse me... Your arm twig is poking my tender bosom flesh!"

 

 

Is the wooden guardian of nature going to kiss the promiscuous princess?

 

So I would certainly appreciate you trying your hands on modeling a true 'Tsaesci' body in the style of the picture you posted. It's probably easier and better to take the popular route of a suit rigged to a human skeleton instead of a true creature mesh. I'd prefer a costume because of the many more animations and poses it makes possible to use for the race.

 

If only you could create a credible walking/'slithering' custom animation to go with the race...

One of the many shortcomings of the race version in the Elsweyr mod is the unspectacular hovering motion the 'Tsaesci' characters are using (because it's everybody else's ordinary walking animation), towering above their stiff and much too short tail. Looks just plain silly.

[kingkong]

i know nothing at all about the creature you named and i do not bother with imaginated fiction knowlege.    But i like your idee of remaking some female creatures  as you did with the spider daedra  And  i might steal your idee of remaking femele creture more Femal  .

 

the spider daedra is already done (not touching it)  and i am thinking about the rest of creatures in oblivion ...

[Emily]

Emily already add 4 fake boobies on them. they can't get anymore 'femaler' than that.

[kingkong]

emily     i am talking about vanilla replacement not  add on            And as you were already told in your topic    your creation is awesome and you add alot of variation  and beauty  to oblivion.

[elalquimista]

I was considering the possibility of tweaking flame atronach and right now I cant recall if there's any other female creature enemy in Oblivion...

 

But this has gone way off topic!

 

I want medusa and snake-like people!

 

The first post was about Tsaesci... the name and lore in TES universe is all fictional, but it appears to have real connections to some real world mythology

I think its a very curious finding the fact that lore on snake vampire people is not only Bethesda's imagination... actually I discovered it the other way around, but who cares, the point is, I see a connection.

On the part where it is said the fact of the being vampires, and eating people and going all evil, are imperial lies, I think just like the real world lore on snake gods, the stories may be tainted.

So the demonization of these creatures by the imperial rule, may have defined them as evil, but they probably weren't all evil... and most likely not the evil vampire snakes the story says, but probably a bit of good a bit of evil and a bit of war stories mixed in between... The victors always tell the story

So they are called vampires... so what? every creature has to eat... and there's not even a need to kill for blood, just take some and go, the rest is unnecessary.

That's the point where I say evil, is a choice. and some chose to be evil, but there's no need to put everybody in the same bag.

[gregathit]

Regarding Daedra:  http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Varieties_of_Daedra

[Emily]

But tsaechi is no daedra.

More like khajiit and tang mo

[elalquimista]

If I got the picture right

 

In Tamriel

-Daedra: Demonic

-Human: lots of folks

-Elf: same as above

-Khajiit: Cat-like

-Argonian: Lizards

-Dwemer: Steampunk dwarfs 

-Vampire: Infected folk from many races who dwells on undead stuff

 

And in Akavir:

-Tang Mo: Ape-like folk

-Ka Po Tun : Tiger-like

-Tsaesci: Snake-like, not reptile, nor frog, nor insect nor anything else. Snake. (*original vampire race?)