Perkus Maximus ?

[HappyerbS]

no sir,i don't like it 

[guk]

I don't use it anymore. Which, by the way, doesn't mean criticism shouldn't be allowed, especially in a thread asking about opinions on it.

Well some forum users don't like discussing a subject, but prefer to attack other users instead.

Welcome to the internet

 

and the difference with perkus or skyre is what?

Is this a conundrum?

The difference is that Requiem is a total game conversion that doesn't need any other gameplay mods in the first place. While PerMa would need at least 20+ mods on top just to cover a similar wide range of the game.

 

 

And BTW i have never said in this thread that Requiem is "better" than anything - you can read it as "EVEN Requiem is more compatible than this", because most people who have tested that mod know that it's god damn complicated. There was no comparison about the gameplay quality or anything else.

 

 

 

[yatol]

 

And BTW i have never said in this thread that Requiem is "better" than anything - you can read it as "EVEN Requiem is more compatible than this", because most people who have tested that mod know that it's god damn complicated. There was no comparison about the gameplay quality or anything else.

 

 

unlike someone that didn't even bother trying before saying perkus is crap, i have played sperg, skyre, requiem, and perma

 

you think requiem is more "compatible" because it have less patch?

did you took a look at requiem readme? do you even know the use of those patch?

see the immersive creature esp? it got override by rebirth monster (it's in the potion esp)

if i load the java thing without fixing that, that draugr won't have his custom outfit in game (that's why you need patch or xml or whatever)

to fix that, you need a immersive rebirth monster esp (or directly putting that into rebirth monster)

 

if i load requiem java thing without fixing that, that draugr won't have his custom outfit and rebirth monster

that draugr will be hard at low levels, because he have more levels than you, and that's all

he's just a dumbass with a sword, and he's always the same so once you have his level, there's no more challenge

 

see that bandit?

he's nothing in requiem, don't even know how to use his weapon

once you are high level, even if there's a lot of them, they can't do much about the god that is coming for them (it's boring and not really realistic)

 

that patchus have obis and... don't know (there's a lot of mods in that esp)

if there's a lot of them, your level don't matter, you are nothing special, you can use shouts, so what?

 

 

that's what compatible mean

patchus don't edit everything, you can choose the esp you want, and you can use something else if you want

with requiem, that's another storie (if you put an esp before, you won't have it, if you put it after, you may broke requiem)

[nanashi50]

Two questions about the PerMA patcher:

 

1) For those running lots of custom armor/weapon mods, how often do you need to manually edit xml files to get them working correctly with the patcher?

 

2) How does the patcher decide how to adjust armor/damage values? And how does it decide when to reclassify items (light vs. heavy gauntlets, short bow vs. long, etc)?

 

So... back to my question that started this mess... Final answer? Do we need to use a lifeline?

[Shiratama]

 

I don't use it anymore. Which, by the way, doesn't mean criticism shouldn't be allowed, especially in a thread asking about opinions on it.

 

it's not criticism when you say a mod you use is better than another one you didn't even tried

compatibility is t3nd0 forte, so saying something else is more compatible, what a joke...

 

I don't think you read my post, or you are quoting me while replying to someone else. I never mentioned compatibility at all for the simple reason that my PerMa game was with it alone.

 

 

@Taskmaster

 

 

You basically took it as if the author made PerMa the "second coming"; you fell for your own delusions.

 

Yes and I admitted that myself. But considering for how long the mod was advertised before its release this isn't so unreasonable.

 

Doesn't make sense or goes against the role of the tree? The roles of the trees are what you make them.

Each having mixes of offense, defense and summoning abilities, + more, allow the players that want to solely focus on a particular specialization to get through the game's obstacles and limitations, without having to fall back on the console.

How about in a vanilla non-PerMa game, a player wants to use only the Restoration tree? Time to hit "~" and add other stuff now, in order to make a smooth playthrough, as it isn't giving the player choices and tools to tackle some situations you can't just 'no combat' your way out of. 

 

Trees have defined roles, I don't know how you can even argue that point. Restoration for instance never was an offensive option, even in older TES games where it was more powerful than now. Its role was healing and buffing, a support tree valuable to warriors and mages alike. A playthrough with Restoration alone means the player is purposely gimping themselves, it's not because the tree is poorly designed.

 

The whole tree system is made to replace the old class system. Even if you chose Pilgrim or Healer in Morrowind, you wouldn't only use one skill. You had hand-to-hand combat, you had blunt weapons... The system is designed to mix-and-match the skills to make your build, so if all the trees are similar, it defeats the entire purpose.

 

Fluffy perk descriptions are an RP element, don't you understand that?

 

It's a MENU. By definition, functionality is the most important thing to consider. RP or "immersion" has no place here.

 

 

You may have criticism(and I agree with you on how nexus and authors handle that), but this criticism here isn't well thought out at all.

 

 

 

Really? I'm not a native English speaker but I believe I made my point clear regardless. I dislike PerMa because 1) it tends to bastardize the trees and 2) it tries way too hard to get rid of the passives and to give an active effect to the perks.

 

You may actually like both of those tendencies but how me pointing that "isn't well thought out at all"?

 

And to top this all off, the mod was in beta stage for well over a year. Hindsight is 20-20, but with these comments, you could've participated in the beta and made your voice heard during the crucial developmental stages.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Some of the complaints I have could also apply for SkyRE (but to a much lesser extent) so it's more like there's a big rift between T3nd0's design philosophy and mine.

 

Calling PerMa absolutely terrible, is gamer hyperbole. You may not like the mod/overhaul, it might not be for you, but calling it terrible is an extreme stretch.

 

 

No it's not. I find it terrible. Meaning that, in its current form, I'll never attempt further playthroughs with it. This is a subjective opinion, didn't try to pass this as an objective fact.

[Taskmaster]

 

 

@Taskmaster

 

 

You basically took it as if the author made PerMa the "second coming"; you fell for your own delusions.

 

Yes and I admitted that myself. But considering for how long the mod was advertised before its release this isn't so unreasonable.

 

Doesn't make sense or goes against the role of the tree? The roles of the trees are what you make them.

Each having mixes of offense, defense and summoning abilities, + more, allow the players that want to solely focus on a particular specialization to get through the game's obstacles and limitations, without having to fall back on the console.

How about in a vanilla non-PerMa game, a player wants to use only the Restoration tree? Time to hit "~" and add other stuff now, in order to make a smooth playthrough, as it isn't giving the player choices and tools to tackle some situations you can't just 'no combat' your way out of. 

 

Trees have defined roles, I don't know how you can even argue that point. Restoration for instance never was an offensive option, even in older TES games where it was more powerful than now. Its role was healing and buffing, a support tree valuable to warriors and mages alike. A playthrough with Restoration alone means the player is purposely gimping themselves, it's not because the tree is poorly designed.

 

The whole tree system is made to replace the old class system. Even if you chose Pilgrim or Healer in Morrowind, you wouldn't only use one skill. You had hand-to-hand combat, you had blunt weapons... The system is designed to mix-and-match the skills to make your build, so if all the trees are similar, it defeats the entire purpose.

 

Fluffy perk descriptions are an RP element, don't you understand that?

 

It's a MENU. By definition, functionality is the most important thing to consider. RP or "immersion" has no place here.

 

 

You may have criticism(and I agree with you on how nexus and authors handle that), but this criticism here isn't well thought out at all.

 

 

 

Really? I'm not a native English speaker but I believe I made my point clear regardless. I dislike PerMa because 1) it tends to bastardize the trees and 2) it tries way too hard to get rid of the passives and to give an active effect to the perks.

 

You may actually like both of those tendencies but how me pointing that "isn't well thought out at all"?

 

And to top this all off, the mod was in beta stage for well over a year. Hindsight is 20-20, but with these comments, you could've participated in the beta and made your voice heard during the crucial developmental stages.

 

 

Maybe, maybe not. Some of the complaints I have could also apply for SkyRE (but to a much lesser extent) so it's more like there's a big rift between T3nd0's design philosophy and mine.

 

Calling PerMa absolutely terrible, is gamer hyperbole. You may not like the mod/overhaul, it might not be for you, but calling it terrible is an extreme stretch.

 

 

No it's not. I find it terrible. Meaning that, in its current form, I'll never attempt further playthroughs with it. This is a subjective opinion, didn't try to pass this as an objective fact.

 

 

It was advertised for so long, because it was in development for as long.

 

You're willing to tell me, at this point, with mods, that things should be so clearly defined?(instead of some mods being clearly defined, and others not) Just for your benefit, mind you. A tree like Restoration should be clearly defined, just for you, where those that don't want it to be so rigid are SOL. Meanwhile, if you personally want it to be rigid and clearly defined, you can just skip over the things you don't want(you know, self imposition, which is a hallmark of RPGs of this nature is it not?), while those that want more won't even have the option as it's no longer there(thus defeating their reason for wanting something like PerMa).

 

It doesn't matter how the original system was defined. Perkus Maximus is made with intentions on redefining and expanding, things that Overhauls do. 

 

"RP or 'immersion' has no place here" -in reference to the perk menu.

 

^You must not be playing an RPG.

Secondly, you must not have looked at the PerMa documentation, which lists specifically what all the perks do. Have you even looked at that? Fluff like what's on the perk descriptions are catalysts for ones imagination, for playing an RPG. The PerMa documentation lists what the perks do in full detail, and there's also a mod that lists them that way for you.

 

Your full criticism isn't well thought out, because of the above, and you're basically trying to turn PerMa into something it is not. If you knew what it was, then you wouldn't be criticizing the change of things that define it, but criticizing for the improvement of said things. And since I'm of the belief you don't know what PerMa is, my claim is that your criticism is not thought out. For example, I'm not going to criticize a lawyer for not fixing toilets - as a lawyer is not a plumber. I know at least a little bit about lawyers to know that fixing toilets is not a part of their job description(unless "toilet" is a metaphor).

 

Of course there's a big rift between your design philosophy and T3nd0's(you could've said THIS instead of calling it terrible in exaggeration), so to call PerMa terrible, is a stretch and an ill informed exaggeration. Just because you don't like or agree with something, doesn't automatically mean it's terrible. Especially when you're criticizing PerMa, to not be PerMa - instead of criticizing it to be an improved PerMa. This is where my comment about hyperbole stems from; your subjective opinion was hyperbolic.

[Mewwt]

This is beautiful.

[svenchen]

So I just found out that PerMa is at 1.1 now. I'm kind of cautious about updating though as I'm on a 70h save and don't really want to lose it. Anyone here updated successfully to 1.1 on a playthrough that far?

 

I'm using mod organizer so I'm just thinking I'll add the new version with a different name and before running the patcher make a backup of my overwrite folder. That way I should be able to go back in case anything gets ruined, right?

[w33beast1e]

One of the issues with the patcher prior to 1.1 was that re-running it mid-save caused funky issues with inventoried/equipped gear. I seem to recall it being said that updating to 1.1 on a fresh save was reconmended. In my experience of using these patchers, mid-game  is always a potential can o' woims. If it were me I doubt I'd be willing to potentially throw a 70hr game save under the bus for what amounts to some fairly minor revisions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bloodfang]

Personnaly I didn't like it, So I uninstalled. When it says it requires this, and that and this to work it's just not worth it so I installed a simple mod that change perks and leveling, less compatibilities issues and more fun for me.

[Someone92]

According to the patch notes Perkus Maximus 1.1 now supports re-patching on existing savegames "better".

As someone who updates their mod list about every other day, is Perkus Maximus now save to use for me or does re-patching still has a high chance to break existing savegames?

[Taskmaster]

According to the patch notes Perkus Maximus 1.1 now supports re-patching on existing savegames "better".

As someone who updates their mod list about every other day, is Perkus Maximus now save to use for me or does re-patching still has a high chance to break existing savegames?

 

I've repatched numerous times on the same saves. Sometimes you'll have to, depending on what you install, and sometimes the patchus itself wasn't clean initially and needs to be ran again.

 

What it comes down to is how long it actually takes for you to repatchus, and if it's worth doing that again. It takes me about 5-10 minutes with 180 plugins, and to some it takes them almost or even over an hour.

[nightwalk7]

I really interested in Skyre & Perkus Maximus and join this topic has the same question like Mr.guk. But when read this topic i decided not install Perkus, just like i removed Skyre before. Because i'm a player with many custom armors & weapons,fashion clothes mods and Skyre & Perma doesnt friendly compatible with them. If i use them then when i want to install a new clothes mod, i must look in the compatible mod list, run re-patch, or find compatible .xml file...no way, so complicated ! This things Perkus promises but not deliver (like Mr.guk said) . Maybe one day i will date with Perkus when i no longer love fashion clothes. Or just waiting one day they give me an option use Perkus without touching any base items stats (only perks & enemy tweaks)

Sorry, English isnt my native language. 

[Shadowscale]

I was leery about PerMa for so long then decided to try it out after using SPERG for so long. At first I tried Requiem and its patcher hated me entirely. After trying to run different mods through exclusions til I just gave up and tried PerMa. After I started a new save with PerMa I enjoyed the changes it did immensely. It gave me reasons to try to specialize a character and the mastery perks made each character I took them on different. While it doesn't really recognize some mods such as Light Daedric (it got converted to heavy armor type) I recommend to just try it out to see if its to your liking.

[Lantera]

I enjoyed PerMa quite a bit, when I used it. It might take a bit of time to set up, including some CK editing or XML editing to get custom armors to scale accordingly, but over vanilla it definitely made perks in general more meaningful. Like Shadowscale mentions, perks actually make a meaningful difference in how your character plays, so not every character ends up playing roughly the same way in the end like in vanilla.

 

I gave up on it for now because the scripts made my game less stable (especially all the bleeding perks and such could take its toll during combat and brawls never quite got along with them) and because I swap mods a lot, and constantly having to check if stuff is compatible, modifying it to make it compatible if possible and trying to figure out why mods aren't getting along just burnt me out. Right now I'm running a game with Deadly Combat and Combat Evolved to at least have some combat modifiers to make vanilla a bit more interesting, but it's not the same. I'm still looking for something similar for magic, because vanilla mages get screwed over more than my character in the average Skyrim inn on a dusky evening.

[Kaputzki]

But then i saw that you need to dig through endless lists of in/compatible mods, find compatibility patches, and then get an .xml for every single item mod for the Skyproc Patcher.

So basically it sounds 1:1 the same like with SkyRe, only that you have to find mods for the other game content on your own (provided those mods already have compatibility patches).

And the PerPa ran ~15 minutes on my installation, then terminated with an error. Watching the video tutorial, this is meant to run "up to 2 hours" on a heavily modded game. Ermm... wtf? So every time you change just 1 mod, you have to wait up to 2 hours for the patcher?

So, your opinions please.

 

Hey,

 

I'm an avid PerMa user and I didn't have to dig/read that much. The main reading points was T3nd0's page and the PCaPP page, which both eliminated many of my problems.

 

1. Compatibility wise I always look at PCaPP page or the current mod page to see if it's compatible.

 

The patcher thing not working was a huge pain in the ass though, until I realized there are 2 more patchers included and used a different version which worked, but then terminated because the mod order was not to its exact specifications.

 

Took me some tweaking but finally got it to work.

 

 

2. I enjoy PerMa's perks and mechanisms, it makes the game more engaging for me. I can also agree with Shiratama that it does change designated trees' roles (I mean, c'mon, restoration was always the weakass healing tree, conjuration was always summoning, enchanting was always... Well, enchanting etc'), however - it is done in a way that I truly enjoy and if it's fun for me, I can let it slide.

 

Playing as a conjuration/restoration/destro mage, I cast curses and diseases while my summoned minions are tearing the enemy flanks - then quickly switch to destruction spells and trim them down completely. Experience-wise, I enjoy it - it may not be the most fair or "balanced" in some people's eyes, but in the end we do what's making our game fun.

 

Many perks are active perks and that can be quite a nuisance, but t3nd0 t3nds to trim down on passive perks in trees he believes shouldn't be passive, he did that in SkyRe and in PerMa.

 

3. All in all, this whole discussion boils down to whether or not PerMa is your flavor. To me, it definitely is but I can see many valid reasons why others wouldn't like it.

 

also, the perk descriptions are absolute trash. They make no sense and force me to actually alt tab to a browser to see what they give me - if we raise the claim of "RP purposes", alt-tabbing to check perks isn't very immersive.

 

p.s. got a defluffing mod for perkus maximus if anyone is interested:

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/59854/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fskyrim%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D59854%26preview%3D&pUp=1

[Ashra XIII]

Since Perkus Maximus got released I have tried it a few times, and there's a lot for me to like in it, but I often get frustrated by how long the patcher takes any time I want to make a change to my mod setup. In fact, I have dumped PerMa probably 3 or 4 times, and yet I keep going back to it because it does make lots of changes to the core gameplay mechanics of Skyrim which I find really fun.

 

I'm not sure if that qualifies entirely as an endorsement! But I guess in the end I can't make myself get rid of it, so that says something.

[Shadowscale]

Since Perkus Maximus got released I have tried it a few times, and there's a lot for me to like in it, but I often get frustrated by how long the patcher takes any time I want to make a change to my mod setup. In fact, I have dumped PerMa probably 3 or 4 times, and yet I keep going back to it because it does make lots of changes to the core gameplay mechanics of Skyrim which I find really fun.

 

I'm not sure if that qualifies entirely as an endorsement! But I guess in the end I can't make myself get rid of it, so that says something.

 

I just use the time the patcher is running to start reading a book. Unless you tell it to remember your mods in the patcher program you should only have to redo your patch if you change anything that adds weapons, armor, or npcs.